Not the potential to do something, but the potential not to do something. And perhaps for an entire year.’ Suddenly, there was an extraordinary sense of relief, a sort of wave washing through me, a kind of euphoria, but also something more than that – a crazy energy.

Then I remember standing in my manager’s office and thinking somewhat guiltily, ‘Fuck! I’m not going on tour. Now, I say this with great caution because I know how disappointed the fans were, but, to be honest, that feeling of existential collapse, well, it lasted about half an hour. It struck at the very core of my being because I was this thing that toured. So when I heard it definitely wasn’t going to happen, I was initially horrified. A lot of work, mental energy and expense. We’d all put an enormous amount of thought and effort into how we were going to present Ghosteen live – we’d been rehearsing with ten backing singers and created a whole visual structure for the show that felt completely unique and very exciting. When Covid hit and my manager, Brian, told me that we wouldn’t be going on tour, I felt this kind of emptying out, like the whole world had dropped out from under me. It was a strange moment, that’s for sure. I have to say, you sounded remarkably philosophical about it. When I spoke to you back in March (2020), your world tour had just been cancelled because of the pandemic. And we’ve always had our big, sprawling conversations, so when you suggested it, I was kind of intrigued to see where it would go. So how do you feel about this undertaking? So five or so years ago I just gave them up. It was like I had to go looking for myself again. I always had to recover a bit afterwards. I guess, at some point, I just realised that doing that kind of interview was of no real benefit to me. After a while, you just get worn away by your own story. The whole premise is so demeaning: you have a new album out, or new film to promote, or a book to sell. Nick Cave: Well, who wants to do an interview? Interviews, in general, suck. Seán O’Hagan: I’m surprised you agreed to do this given that you haven’t done any interviews for a long time.

Faith and hope